From Rhino Times reader Patrick Henry
I listen to Bernie Sanders; a Democratic Socialist (self-identified) who strongly advocates a universal health care system in the U.S.
He goes across the country advocating for this but the one thing I have not heard anyone do is pin him down on the most important aspect of this concept. Who is going to pay for it and how would providers be paid? Before you start pointing at the U.K. system, or any other for that matter, look closely at it, and ask yourself if it works so well, why do people in countries under this system flock to the U.S. for treatment? What is the quality of care, at all levels, compared to the U.S.? Why are some forms of care denied by these systems? And finally, most importantly, what is the number of doctors there compared to here? Not only should these questions be answered, but these people need to be pressed to give an answer, not talking points.
Then there is the (IMO) Bernie Sanders wannabe and protégé AOC. Although she has yet to actually declare herself a Democratic Socialist such as her idol, she’s out there parroting his lines. Has anybody looked at her voting record while being a “Congressional Representative? I suspect it’s pretty lean. Also, where does she get the money to have custom dresses made? Where does the money come from to do all this travelling on private, gas guzzling, air and noise polluting private jets to attend political rallies that have nothing to do with her constituents?
To all the Democrats that are flying to El Salvador to defend an ILLEGAL non-citizen that was deported back to his home country. Do you have no concern about spending TAXPAYER money on these junkets (and that’s what they are)?
I am not leaving out some Conservatives/Republicans from some of these questions. Do you remember what the PRIMARY purpose you were ELECTED to do and for who?
Let me remind you of a line from an iconic President at a historic moment “…a government of the people, by the people, for the people…”
“Show me that age and country where the rights and liberties of the people were placed on the sole chance of their rulers being good men, without a consequent loss of liberty?”
Patrick Henry
Do you believe the system we have today is working? Tying of healthcare to employment leaves people highly vulnerable if their employer doesn’t offer healthcare, or offers very low-quality healthcare, or if you get sick while between employment (when you are the most financially vulnerable).
But to answer your question on who will pay for it? Same as today, you and employers will pay for via taxes. Instead of a copay premium, you pay a tax. Not complicated. Sure, many conservatives will call it a tax increase, but I call it a wash. Even better with the collective bargaining power of the government, drugs and treatments can be made more cost effective.
In regard to access to healthcare providers, it is already a challenge to get quality general care access. You are lucky if you even see a real doctor versus a nurse practitioner or a PA.
It would not be an easy transition for sure. But it is necessary given how broken our current system has become and how many people are left out of preventive care treatment all together.
My two cents.
So I guess WE, the hard working, tax paying citizens, will have to start paying the bill when people start saying ‘why worry, someone else will pay for it.
Why would you think you would pay more than you do today? Do you think health insurance is free?
Chris says the current system doesn’t work if you find yourself out of a job, but then goes on to say that it will be paid for through a tax. So tell us, if I’m not working, how are you going to tax me to get me to pay for it? That’s right, you won’t. That is the problem with tax paid healthcare. All of the working class pays for the freeloaders. And if you want to try to tax businesses to pay for it, all they will do is pass the cost on to the consumer. Just go ahead and admit that you want the workers to pay for the non-workers, aka socialism.
So you refer to someone laid off from their job as a freeloader? There you have it….conservstives DON’T care about the working class.
Emotional response to a logical argument. Not shocking. That’s a lib for you when they can’t refute the facts. Must have hit the nail on the head.
Dodging your accusation that someone who gets laid off without health insurance is a freeloader Don? Not shocking.
You’re right, Don. Then his next thing is to go straight to character assassination…
If repeating his own words is character assassination, I think you mean suicide. LOL
Chris,
Hyperbole is an awful thing used by those losing an argument. Please show me and everyone don inferred someone laid off involuntarily is a freeloader. Then go on to infer…no, not infer but flat out lie with your ” There you have it….conservstives DON’T care about the working class.” How dare you insult people in such a way!
But hey…you be you
“Chris says the current system doesn’t work if you find yourself out of a job” + “All of the working class pays for the freeloaders”
Adds up to me.
Thanks for sticking up for me everyone, but Chris has proven my point for me. As soon as he delves into emotional retorts, I just move on, knowing the real debate is over. If he wants to stay on point, I’ll be glad to debate, but sadly, that usually only lasts one or two replies deep. I try not to get drawn into his childish games, though it is often tempting.
Have great weekend.
Go ahead Don defend your statement that as you say “Chris says the current system doesn’t work if you find yourself out of a job” + “All of the working class pays for the freeloaders”.
Why do you consider hard working Americans that have been laid off freeloaders? How does the system work for people that have been laid off and find themselves without health insurance? How does it work that people who work for employers not required to provide health insurance are supposed to have health insurance given those are typically low paying jobs that barely cover the basics for cost of living?
You call a critical evaluation of your comment hyperbole as a defense given your refusal to actually defend yourself. Bit embarrassing for you but I get it. The conservative messaging you are repeating doesn’t typically stand up under any level of scrutiny.
But you be you.
Well Chris, you took my general statement “find yourself out of a job” and put your specific spin on it as “laid off”. I could find myself unemployed in any number of ways: lay off, termination, quitting, or simply never seeking employment, which many people do. You put your own biased liberal spin on my words, totally glossing over all of the other countless people who do not work because they choose not to work or make poor life decisions.
The dozens of hobos standing on every street corner in Greensboro are not hard-working Americans. They spend their day drunk and begging for money to get drunk again. There are many other people who simply live off of the government and the charity of others, AKA Freeloaders. Our systems are already bloated and overtaxed, so much so that it bleeds into the private sector, like hospital ERs that have become the Urgent Care of the freeloaders. The ER is a perfect place to sample your theory that it’s merely a bunch of hard-working Americans who got laid off. Last time I went, that was not the case at all. The 10+ hour wait existed because people know that the government has forced ERs to treat them for free.
If you want to focus only the “hard working Americans who get laid off”, let’s do that, by all means. Let’s make full-service government assistance for any Amercian who needs it. However, that assistance should be for a finite lifetime window. I would be all for an assistance program that fully supports any American who lost their job, at no fault of their own, for a total of 2 years throughout their entire life. That way if you do find yourself down on your luck, the government will help you get back on your feet. If you have not been able to do that in 2 years, well, then you really aren’t the hard-working American you purported yourself to be. There should be no such thing as life-long government assistance, except for the severely disabled.
Chris,
Where did Don say people who are laid off involuntarily are “freeloaders”? Oh, that’s right, YOU. Then you pile more ignorance on with your ” There you have it….conservstives DON’T care about the working class.” Oh that’s right, he didn’t. What’s the word for that again…oh yeah, A LIE. And what is the descriptive term for someone who lies…oh yeah, A LIAR.
And what do you call someone who chooses to insult people when they can’t win an argument…oh yeah, a hypocrite.
But hey, you be you.
To All,
If this appears with my attempt make an earlier post, I apologize.
Yes, PH, Chris is a liar. He twists facts and misrepresents the truth all the time.
He spews misinformation here every day.
He lies, lies, lies.
You’re right to call him what he is : A LIAR.
Awww, its so cute when Austin falsely projects his own habits onto others. Mr Misinformation Morris so wants to be like his liar in chief.
But while we are here. Come on Austin, answer the question…when you claim that Africans are genetically less intelligent that Europeans, do you include African Americans in that personal belief of yours?
*
Let it go, for God’s sake. We debated this long ago, and you can’t get over the fact that you were publicly humiliated by me. I’m not rehashing it, but anyone can GOOGLE “IQ of different countries” or whatever, and see for themselves.
But… The readers only need click on the current Rhino Times article about Translation Services and read the comments to see how desperate and delirious you are in attacking me, peddling awful lies which you failed to back up. All I had said was that truth deserves to be spoken, and aired without fear of reprisal.
You are becoming increasingly hysterical and unhinged in your anger and hatred.
Seek help, Chris – before it destroys you.
You know the Democratic Party is in trouble when folks portraying their image are idiots like Bernie Sanders and AOC. Hating Trump didn’t work in 2024, but they continue with this stupidity.
The Democratic lunatics and the liberal media are touting Trump’s first 100 days as a disaster of historic proportions.
DEI initiatives are toast across federal agencies. The southern border is secure, illegal aliens are being deported, and businesses are investing here, creating job opportunities and economic growth.
The border wall has resumed construction. Welfare for illegals is ending, and the ineffective ‘catch-and-release’ policy is over. Egg prices are down, illegal aliens can no longer receive mortgages, and DOGE is uncovering a web of wasteful spending and pork projects whose sole purpose was to enrich the political liberal elites and their allies.
While AOC travels the country with Bernie Sanders, railing against the power and influence of so-called “oligarchs” in the United States, allegations of ethics misconduct and swanky jet travel risk undermining her message. In March 2025, she was slapped with an ethics complaint alleging she may have used a taxpayer-funded office budget for dance training she claims were campaign expenses. AOC went five years without paying her taxes, although the IRS considers her in the third-highest income bracket.
Many left-leaning judges are actively working against the interests of our country, potentially leading to a future where communism prevails. Is this not a form of treason?
Trump’s number one priority should be to fight against these left-wing judges who are violating Constitutional law. For instance, they often overstep their authority by making decisions that should be within the president’s purview as the chief executive, who doesn’t serve at the pleasure of these left-wing judges.
It’s baffling why the Supreme Court is not taking a stand. Our country is at a crossroads, with the future being swayed by partisan judges.
salt life,
On your last statement reference the Supreme Court, a simplistic answer may be that nothing has been brought before the Court (yet) therefore they really can’t rule. To do so, IMO, would be interpreted as putting them in the same category as the left wing judges you referenced, that being legislating from the bench, something we DEFINITELY don’t want.
I do wish the administration would begin using a procedure that allows them to appeal directly to the SC, bypassing all these liberal left-wing “impartial” judges. Also, they need to tart using the system that shunts these illegal alien cases to the appropriate judicial channels instead of trying to tie up the regular system and force them to drag out forever. The Democrats know if this were to happen they would lose SO many (illegal) potential voters.
In the meantime, let’s pop a beer, pop some corn, kick back and enjoy the chaos called the DNC
Many of the judges blocking Trump’s ignorance or lack of concern for the law were appointed by….wait for it…..Trump. But we on the left fully understand that the right has little concern for the law, due process, or human rights.
Trump is failing ‘biggly’:
– Reduced US’s dominance in scientific research
– Increased spending even after firing thousands of federal employees
– Alienated most of our long-term allies
– Slowed the economy with dumbest trade war in history
– Failed to deliver peace as promised for Ukraine and Gaza
– Failed to reduce prices as promised but is instead increasing prices instead with his trade war
– Ceded ‘soft power’ to China with discontinuance of USAID programs
– Deported US citizens
– Threatened to deport US citizens to foreign prisons
– Appointed an anti-vax conspiracy theorist to head public health
– Violates right of free speech by threatening journalists, media and now film companies
– Writes executive order in attempt to overrule constitutional amendment
– Fired and had to rehire federal employees due to incompetence.
– DOGE failed to deliver anything even close to their targeted cuts of fraud and waste
– Believes he can unilaterally rename things on the world map
– Ignored his own Supreme Court
– Record low popularity of any president since himself
– etc…
– etc…
And it’s only been 100 days.
–
Out of curiosity would you please quantify “Many…”
Fair question. The two big ones are Carl Nichols and Fernadno Rodriguez in the news most recently. And of course, John Roberts calling out Trump’s rhetoric against judges personally.
But also conservative judges appointed by Reagan and the Bushes such as John Coughenour and John Bates but I don’t have a comprehensive list but I think the number I read was over 9 conservative judges have ruled against Trump’s executive overreaches.
You notice he doesn’t answer the question (maybe because he can’t).
‘Many’ infers a large number. He instead refers to a few, which is a much smaller quantity.
But hey, you be you.
I answered the question very well. Three judges appointed by Trump and 9 by Republicans. Keep up Alan, you can do it. Just keep trying! Lmao
Democrats are the party of the wealthy class—the party of the billionaires. AOC travels the country touting the Republican oligarchy, ruled by the rich, to try to reprimand Musk and Trump.
The ten wealthiest billionaires in the U.S. were significant donors to the Democrats during the Obama and Biden years: Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates, Buffett, Soros, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Ellison, and Mike Bloomberg. This significant influence of the wealthy on the Democratic party raises questions about the party’s true allegiance.
The Left used to love Musk, who voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 and Joe Biden in 2020 and gave enormous amounts of money to their campaigns.
Weird. You do realize that Trump himself claims to be a billionaire. And Musk is kinda a big Trump supporter now. As well as the Koch brothers as well as many other billionaire donors. (see link)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/leokamin/2024/08/14/here-are-trumps-top-billionaire-donors/
Big money rides on both sides and needs to be removed from politics for sure. But to claim this is some problem unique to democrats is just another lie conservatives like to tell.
But you be you.
Musk left the Democratic Party in 2022 due to its ridiculous ideologies. Before then, Musk was a prominent Democrat.
Sanders and AOC say this is a big problem, not me. Don’t you read anything but the NYT?
You might be a Democrat if you agree with Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) (D-NY), who advocates taxing the rich to solve the country’s debt problems. However, it’s worth noting that AOC went five years without paying her taxes, and the IRS categorizes her in the third-highest tax bracket. This apparent contradiction raises questions about the consistency of her stance.
It’s truly astonishing how many people fall for the Democrats’ ‘Tax the Rich’ propaganda. According to the Tax Foundation, ‘The top 1% of Americans today do not face an unusually low tax burden, by historical standards.’ The top 1 percent of highest-earning Americans pay over 40 percent of the country’s income taxes, a fact that is often overlooked in the rhetoric.
Democrats are the party of the wealthy class—the party of the billionaires. AOC travels the country touting the Republican oligarchy, ruled by the rich
Progressives like to announce the names of wealthy conservatives whom they say pay no income tax, but fail to note that no one broke the law under current tax loopholes.
Congress writes federal tax laws, so the same folks who claim the rich pay zero taxes wrote the laws and can change them.
In simple terms, for AOC to understand, a tax bill originates in the House of Representatives. Once approved, it goes to the Senate. Following Senate approval, it is sent to the president to be signed into law. The IRS then takes action to carry out the bill. (I omitted all the sometimes lengthy negotiations between Chambers and the President.)
Biden often touted that the “average federal tax rate” for the wealthy is 8.2%. But, according to Verifythis.com, the 400 richest American taxpayers pay an average federal income tax rate of around 23%.
According to OpenSecrets.org, 51% of Congress members are millionaires, compared to 1% of the general American population.
FYI…Bernie used to condemn millionaires in his speeches until he became one.
If you live your life as a Mushroom, only reading the NYT, you’re definitely a Democrat: Here’s Your Sign.
Bernie gained his wealth by writing books. And at his age, having a net worth of a few million isn’t exactly rich as much as well off. But no one fleeces the government better than Trump. We strongly need to remove the ability of congress members to trade stocks as they clearly use their inside information for insider training. THAT we can agree on.
It is sad so many people the lie that we can just cut spending to solve the US problem with deficit spending. After all the drama of DOGE cutting, Trump and team managed to spend more this year than during the same time last year.
Solving the US budget and debt problem will require both deep cuts in spending as well as increase in taxes. Too bad neither party has the bravado to actually solve the problem.
salt life,
Well presented and researched with CURRENT (not years old, like some) information.
I personally lean toward a flat tax system where anything like used cars, second owner homes, etc. are not taxed. Yes, initially prices would go up on all items, but because we are a capitalist system (not a socialist/communist system like some would have) the power of the individual consumer would motivate manufacturers to eventually lower their prices The best part of the system is an almost nonexistent status of the IRS and the federal tax code since EVERYBODY pays taxes with every new purchase and that tax is based on how much you spend. No tax returns, no 50 page booklets on preparing your taxes, no thousands of federal employees enforcing an onerous system like overlords.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that would mean a smaller federal government with less power over We the People.
Although very simplistic, this description is just an idea for an alternative system. I encourage you to look at it.
Capitalism…it’s what’s for America.